Geronimo

From: Cole, Robin L.
Sent: Monday, August 02, 1999 10:28 AM
Subject: ROTTWEILER BEHAVIOR

  We bought a Rottweiler puppy in February of 99' and he is very lovable, and wants to be a part of almost everything we do. I have taken him with me in the car when I can (which is pretty often) to socialize him with people of different ages from children to adults and dogs of different size and  gender and he does very well, but tends to be a little rough because he is so big. As far as being obedient, he is when he wants to be. He is very strong minded, and has jumped to nip at the face arms & hands of myself and my son & his friends several times even after repeated discipline. He also has a very bad habit of chewing things, such as furniture and basically everything he can get a hold of. When trying to discipline the dog with the command of "Come" he resists, when I pull the collar, he turns his head with mouth open, growls and tries to bite my wrist  as he is pulling back. He does seem to listen to my husband when he is home. Why is this?  Other than these bad traits, that could be because he is still a puppy, he has been a good dog. The problem is that I am not sure how to handle and correct the problems that I am having with him, other than standard discipline/kennel.  Do you have any suggestions?

In conclusion, I do think that the Rottweiler is a good natured dog if coming from a good breed. Some of the points in this article are very true, others not so true. It is a 50/50 thing  that I would suppose changes with every dog. No dog is exactly the same and there can  be problems with any breed you choose. As a dog owner, it is our responsibility to find a solution and deal with it. These dogs as with any animal, depend on us to teach and take care of them and that is what we should do, no matter what breed they are.  RLCole
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              RW Rplies: August 10, 1999, to R.L. Cole....I'm assuming you are a first-time dog, never mind a first-time rottie owner and are having typical puppy problems, made worse only by the fact that this is also a headstrong breed.  And you seem to know enough to have bought one from a good breeding SO, my very frst question is:  have you gone back to your breeder the instant this pup started his nonsense to get some ponters on how to handle any of this young man's problems?  My next reaction is:    YET!!  you are experienced enough and are ready to defend your   "some of the points in this article are very true, others not so true..."    Until you have been an owner of a few rotts AND several dogs of different breeds can you start to make certain claims and statements.  ONCE AGAIN, I REPEAT...ROTTIES WILL TAKE OVER IF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO BE THE PACK LEADER!!!!    This is an excellent example.   This dog is about 8 months old now and still has not been taught proper manners.....now those bad habits are instilled because he's been allowed to get away with them.  What do you think his mother would do if he tried to nip her?  YEP!  She'd turn around and give him a give snip and a short, low growl to TEACH him that he may not commit that particular act.    Your response, RL Cole, when he tried to nip you the first time should have been to grab him by the check and give this young man a quick SHARP "NO!" and to shove him away.....that's all it would have taken if you had responded immediately....now?   it'll be a little "war." AND NO, this "reaction" is not harsh or cruel and nasty....it's "dog language!"  AND FURTHERMORE...it doesn't have to be repeated because the dog learns instantly.  Another example of the dog not respecting you is his not wanting to come to you---why should he!!  It's already been established in his mind that he is in charge because you have not put him in his place and this will become a MORE AND MORE SERIOUS PROBLEM.   Furthermore, you call it disciplining just to call him to you?.....that's the worst thing you could do....I wouldn't come to you either if I'm going to get scolded....he would come if you offered him a good reason, not punishment.  He also doesn't come to you because you have given him nothing interesting to come to...chewing something is must more pleasurable than facing a nasty tone with natsy words..   RL COLE, you have made some very typical BAD.judgement errors in how to raise a puppy.   You sound intelligent but I'm wondering why you 1) waited so long to seek help, 2) haven't called your breeder for advice, 3) bought a book on raising a pup, 4) gone to obedience classes.  In your last sentence you say "As a dog owner, it is our responsibility to find a solution and deal with it. These dogs as with any animal, depend on us to teach and take care of them and that is what we should do, no matter what breed they are."   I must commend you on your "feelings" of responsibility but must tell you that you must ACT now and go to an obedience class NOW, with an experienced, knowledgeable trainer who's had some experience with and knowledge of rotts too.   We will write about how to handle these problems in "TRAINING" on Rottweb but your problem needs ACTION right this minute and you cannot wait for us to sit down and write instructions for you.  We will address this in full as we get dozens of questions/comments like this from novice owners but in your case, we STRONGLY recommend that you do not wait.  We will try to write some guidelines up in the next few days but every minute counts so if you can, get yourself into a class ASAP.       

R.L.Cole replies Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 12:03 PM
  Thank you for the suggestions given in the response.   I do have some complaints though.  First, you made remarks of me that I did not appreciate or think were very professional.  How do you know that I have never owned a dog before this one? I have had  several dogs that did not behave this way, that is why I asked for your opinion.  I have also talked with his veterinarian about this problem, I wanted to know what you thought. You say that my dog was not taught proper manners. Well that is what I have been trying to do for months, I have not allowed him to get away with it, he has been scolded, told no, etc.  Second, do you really think that I did nothing when the dog tried to bite
me? Come on, I grabbed him on the side of his neck, scolded him and told him no, etc. That is not all it took, it has been repeated, and the dog did/does not learn instantly. That is incorrect (at least with this dog.) Not all dogs react the same,  I'm sorry but I have done the things you say in this response, and if they worked, I would not still be having a problem, would I. With the command of come, maybe I used the wrong word (discipline), But in this situation, the dog had gone into my 5 yr old sons room and chewed up toys or jumped up on the bed to get my sons snack. I tell the dog to come,   to get him out of the room, if he does not listen, I take his collar to get him to come, and he resists. He is not being scolded for coming to me, he is being scolded for doing something wrong. I do prais m and give him treats for responding to commands, when he hasn't been bad. If I rewarded him for coming to me after he did something bad that would defeat the purpose.  If I had known that you were going to take my words and turn them around, I would not have bothered with asking for your suggestions. I may not be perfect, but the way you turned what I wrote around it sounds like I have just let the dog go and do what he wants because he has started rebelling, and that is not the case at all. And I have been working with the dog on a one on one basis, because I am the one he seems to be trying to dominate, and so far he has shown some improvement. Part of the problem is that I am a small person, 4' 10'', and of course I'm not going to let a soon to be 100 or more lb dog dominate me, that is why I asked for some of your suggestions as well.

Dear Robin....thank you for responding.   In order for me to reply to above comments I had to go back to read your initial em and my response and no, I do not feel that I have turned your words around.   I realize,  just as in my case, that in trying to keep the comments/questions succinct that it is difficult to give a completely accurate account or description of the scenario.   And so I can appreciate that you did not really mean to say that you disciplined him by calling him to you....but that is what you said and I have no choices but to respond to statements in the way they are presented to me.   In taking journalism in school, one of the things that was impressed upon us over and over again, is the importance in making very clear statements otherwise confusion follows which then requires time in explanations.   Let me first precede anything more that I say with the fact that I have been involved in the "dog business" for nearly 30 years, breeding, showing, obedience training (my own and others' dogs), titling, taking classes, going to seminars on health, behavior, breeding, feeding, etc.  Let me tell you that I have encountered and handled many different types of dogs, behaviors and situations.   What you described is typical of a dog that has not learned the first time from the first time he/she was disciplined....it's obvious insofar as the fact that he's still repeating some of the things that are unacceptable such as jumping up and nipping....those are typical puppy behaviors that were not corrected properly.    A proper correction does not consist of alot of physical strength, or alot of screaming....in fact, in order to get the dog's attention, the best way to handle it is NOT to grab the dog's collar, rotties HATE that and will turn around to bite that hand [that is why I thought that you are a first time rotty owner because it's just something you MAY NOT/CANNOT do with a rott] but to go get the leash, put it on him, call him, snap the lead if he doesn't come to you, praise him as he comes to you (even though you are furious and want to strangle him) and whisper, YES!  WHISPER what a good boy he is....make him sit, pet him slowly and coo the words to him again about what a good boy he was for coming to you....even though he did not.   The dog that is very resistant does not respond to someone flailing around because that person is not in control...that person is upset and the dog is reading that behavior in just that way.   A person in control of any situation, is extremely calm in walking forward, slipping on the leash, calling the dog (it's in the tone of voice too!!) and then the calm, reassuring hand.    If you were to go to any obedience class and the same problem occurred week after week in the class, your instructor would say the same thing to you.....YOU have not impressed your dog with your leadership....dogs really do learn the first time ....  unless, they are really stupid...and that's a possibility too...but even with a very stupid dog, it is trainable with alot of time and alot of patience.  

Again, here is another area that I would have to question.   When you told him no....how strong is your voice?  is it authoritative?  or is it at a screaming, shrieking pitch?   The reason I ask is that your tone and level plays a very important part in the way the dog accesses the seriousness of the actual words.   I have worked with people who do not have strong voices....I do, I'm an alto, my voice is deep...I've had to tell women to practice saying no.   What I tell them is to pretend they're "growling" and the word is coming out very harsh...it does not have to be loud to get the dog's attention...they're not deaf....my NO is coming almost from between my teeth and it starts with a rumble in my throat....my dogs know I mean business!  And I only have to do this once or twice when they're very young and it remains for the rest of their lives....I never have to repeat it again...because they learned it early and NO really means NO.  So when you say to me that you have to repeat your commands, you're telling me you're not in control.   I'm sorry but that really is taught in the first couple of lessons in any obedience school.   Secondly, you do not grab the dog on the side of the neck....you should grab behind the corners of his mouth which would actually be the cheeks, grab very firmly, almost a pinch, pull him to you, give him a VERY FIRM STARE in the eye and use the growly NO!   It has worked every time with every similar situation.   

I may not be  perfect, but the way you turned what I wrote around it sounds like I have just let the dog go and do what he wants because he has started rebelling,  and that is not the case at all.     Again, I didn't say or make it sound like you have just let the dog go....what I said to you is that you have not handled any of the scenarios properly and that you need the help of a more experienced person....you yourself said that you've had dogs before but this one presents a challenge.   In this message you still have not clarified that you've owned a rotty before you simply say that you've owned other dogs....rotts are different...they're smarter, they're more headstrong, they will sieze the opportunity if they think they can and they can be troublesome because of this....the only thing you're describing to me is that you're having the typical problems with an intelligent rott....I've encoutered this many times with first time rotty owners....they've had other dogs but this one presents a challenge....me too....I started with German Shepherd Dogs and it's a whole different kettle of fish.   And I have been working with the dog on a one on one basis, because I am the  one he seems to be trying to dominate, and so far he has shown some improvement. Part of the problem is that I am a small person, 4' 10'',  and of course I'm not going to let a soon to be 100 or more lb dog dominate me,     

The last comments I made were that you get yourself to an obedience school with an experienced instructor.   I have to repeat and reinforce that.   Everything that you've said so far still tells me that you have made mistakes, unknowingly, in the way you've dealt with your rotty.   There is no need for you to be upset at me for this.  If you came to my class, I would be saying these things to you personally.   And please don't take my comments on a personal level.  Put that aside and pretend you've never owned a dog and that you have to relearn how to work with a rotty....I did.  And I had to go from instructor to instructor until I found a school that really helped me with my first rotty (I had already put obedience titles on my GSD's) who was an alpha...very dominant...and my breeder helped me too but she was very far away and her strong suggestion was to get this boy into obedience school....I make the same suggestion to you.  My dog also respected my husband....I've been there, Robin.....I tell you this from experience.   And as far as vets go....they do not learn this in school...they know nothing about how to deal with these matters...much less how to deal with a real rott temperament.   So, I wish you luck with your dog....and I would be interested in knowing how you're coming along with this dog....unless by now you are totally enraged at me.   Good luck in any case.  

Saturday, Sept. 4, 1999 ---   Erika has taken a great deal of time to respond to RL Cole who has taken the attidute that the dog is simply rebellious ... but not that her training methods might have been all wrong.    There are so many emails from people like her who are in the same "boat" with male rottweilers that are giving them a hard time that wehave decided that are going to devote our time to responding to each one of RL Cole's points in the hopes that RL Cole and our other wonderful rotty owners/viewers see how simple "training  or correction mistakes  are being made and how easily certain behaviors can be corrected.   Also please keep tuned to TRAINING as we give you some basic pointers on how to deal with natural and NORMAL rottweiler temperament.   None of these behavioural traits suprise us as we have encountered many such dogs in our quarter century lifetime of living with them.    We find rottweilers to be the most highly intelligent of all the breeds with a high capacity for learning....in many instances just by watching another dog being trained.....we have used older dogs to demonstrate an exercise and like young children they learn by the example.    Rottweilers are also very versatile and do not "specialize" in just one unique feature...such as a bloodhound, a retriever, a bird dog....rottweilers are capable of doing them all.....it's up to YOU to learn how to figure out what they're best at and to promote that feature.    But it's also YOUR responsibility that your dog learn the rules of our human society.     We hope that RL Cole puts her  "feelings" aside as she will have to "start from scratch" with her dog.   In TRAINING we will address some of the very first things we do with our rotties to get them to "pay attention" to us.   Paying attention is, afterall, the key to learning.     Ursula

From: Manolo Rider  Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:47 PM    Subject: rott training article
I very much enjoyed reading your article and look forward to the next one since it will address our principle problem with our dog, agression
toward strangers (and actually, just about anyone w/o a leash at the end of their arm - it's something I wonder if anyone can explain - while
generally aggressive toward most people except a few who met him when we first got him - from a shelter - he is unfailingly fine if he meets
someone who is walking their dog.  Some of his "best friends" are other dog owners in our neighborhood, and he does all the endearing Rottie
things like licking them to death).  We love our dog and have adapted to the fact that he is aggressive toward most people, but obviously I would prefer to have a dog who could hang out with us when we have people over.  We have done some obedience training with him - he knows the basics -  but I was wondering if you knew of any trainers in the Chicago area who work specifically with Rotts.  Part of me thinks that his agression will always be there due to some early trauma suffered before we adopted him (at age 1 1/2) and part of me thinks that there must be  SOMETHING we can do.  Sorry for the choppiness of this letter.  I wanted to be brief but give you some background on our dog also.  FYI, he is  not aggressive toward us, and although I suspect part of our problem is that we are not clearly the alphas, we can do dominant things such as  take things out of his mouth (not much of a garbagehound, thank goodness, but on occasion), take bones away, get in his dog dish (such a messy eater!), clip nails and clean ears, etc.  Thanks in advance for your recommendations.    Regards,  Rachel

Sheila responds:   Rachel, thanks for visiting Rottweb and for sharing your story with us.   Since this is a holiday weekend and we're having some difficulties connecting, we will come back to answer you shortly so please return for some helpful tips.   Let me just reassure you that your dog's behaviour is typical of his guard dog instincts.....remember that is what he is genetically programmed for and it is up to you to show him how and when to use his instincts and not to be startled or frightened by them.   It is up to you to take charge and we will show you how....so please come back.

lst Period – Birth through 3rd week (0 to 20 days)
                                Basic needs: food, sleep, warmth, gentle touch.                                                                  Responds by reflex, benefits from careful handling and massage.
2nd Period – 4th week (21 to 28 days)
Critical week – pup becomes aware of environment and rapidly develops his senses, i.e., sight, hearing, smell, taste and feel. This transition to the 2nd period is indicated by the "startle" response. Socializing with adults and children should begin.   Pups now begin to learn from their surroundings.
Needs: Unaltered environment - DO NOT remove pup from litter, he is learning to be a dog. Do not wean suddenly; any transition must be easy. Do not permit any negative events to occur.
3rd Period - 5th through 7th week (29 to 49 days)
Needs: Personal attention away from the litter, slowly and consistently. Three short periods daily is ideal. Teaching and socialization should be intensified. Housetraining and weaning can begin.

Leave with the litter. They are learning greeting, dominance, submissiveness and play gestures. Do not completely remove the mother or you become surrogate mother for care and discipline.

Optimum learning time is 21 to 49 days of age. Things to do: lead break, examine teeth, testicles, ears, feet, brush, retrieve, come.

4th Period - 8th through 12th week
Brain is now fully developed.
Needs: Socializing with the outside world. Remove from mother. Remove from litter or rotate with littermates. Dominance is reinforced during this time. Training should continue as well as socializing with other dogs.
AVOlD fright or pain during this time as it is the "Fear Imprint Stage."

5th Period - 13th through 16th week
Needs: Training, formal obedience, less exposure to dogs. Dominance and flight instinct are more deeply prominant. Flight period can come anytime between 4 to 8 months of age depending on the size of the breed.

Note "Permissively raised puppies, upon reaching sexual maturity, will treat owners with complete indifference and, if physically restrained or disciplined, may react with aggressive violence." M.J. Fox

Juvenile Period - 4th through 7th month
Most difficult time for owners if dog has been "the boss" up to this point. (Note: Most dogs are placed in shelters during this time.
Fear of new (sometimes even old) situations; attains sexual maturity; dominant traits are established.